13 player lineup, integrating with others, ipad/iphone

scotty on May 31, 2011, 06:50 pm


Your scorekeeping method is a HUGE improvement over the traditional method that I have been using for years. After scoring a few games, I feel so much more confident in the accuracy of my book, especially, the pitch count. As promised, I am really able to clearly break down what happened at every at bat. I have three questions:

1) Can you make a suggestion on how to score a game if there are 13 batters? I bought the downloadable little league version, so I suppose I could just use a second page.

2) I am a back-up score keeper for our little league team. The next time I have to fill-in, I would dread having to use a traditional scorekeeping method/book. Honestly, I think the only thing the league and coaches care about is an accurate score and pitch counts. Do you have advice about working in a non-Reisner environment? I am wondering if the league would be OK with me just pasting in the Reisner sheet in the "official" book.

3) Finally, do you have any plans to have an iphone or ipad version of your scorekeeping method?

Again, great job on your method of scorekeeping.


Alex Reisner on June 1, 2011, 01:54 pm

Glad you're having success with the new method. Thanks for the endorsement!

1) The 13-batter lineup is just a tough situation. I know there are a few other people in that boat and hopefully one of them will share their solutions (if any) here because I'm not sure what to suggest. My only idea at the moment is to print a second scorecard, cut out the row for the first batter, and try to glue or tape it onto your main scorecard, maybe at the bottom. Then you'll have to re-number the boxes in that row (I'd recommend using 73-78 even though it's out of the sequence of the game--seems better than renumbering all the boxes on the whole card). Anyone have a better idea?

2) Not sure exactly what to recommend here either. Certain key events in a Reisner scorecard (outs, runs scored) are fairly easy to read so you might be able to get away with that. Maybe you could get the league to switch to adopt the Reisner system officially?

3) A lot of people have asked about scorekeeping with mobile devices and unfortunately I just don't think I'm going to have the time. The best way to keep score on a computer anyway is not to mimic what you do on a paper scorecard--the interface should be completely different, so printing would be the only Reisner-specific aspect. I've heard that iScore is already doing a good job with a event entry interface (from what I've seen it looks good) and so getting them to support output in Reisner format would probably be your best bet. I know a few other people have written to them about this (including me) and apparently they're interested but for some reason we haven't been able to connect.

mattlasley on June 7, 2011, 07:09 pm

Hey scotty, welcome.

1) I've done 13 and even 16 batters. Since the more batters, the less likely you'll need the far right columns, I end up using them. I've done it several ways.

a) Add #13 on same row as #12

B12 gets the first 3 squares, and I draw a dark vertical line to make the next batter, so B13 gets the last 3 squares of the same row. His name goes in the 2nd slot of the #12 position.
As I score, I come down to #12, score his box, skip over to #13, score his box, then return to the top of the order. I tally each on their own line (#12 is on 1st of the 3 lines, and #13 is on the 2nd of the 3 lines for the #12 position on the sheet).
Positive is, it's fairly quick and simple. Normally I just have that one extra step. You'd have to go through 51 batters to run out of boxes and that's pretty rare. If you did, (here's the negative) you would have to do whatever you do when you run out of boxes on a 12-player game.
This method also works for up to 24 batters, it just means there's only room for 3 Plate appearances per kid, but you should be fine. You'd run out of daylight before going through that many kids.... I would hope.

b) Add extras in far right columns running downward

I've done this less often because I don't like changing direction. But it actually accomodates the 16-batter problem more easily. I'll go out to the far right column and add a #"13" above the boxes and skip down a bit and add a "14" and so on. I still write these extra batters as if they were substitutes for other positions (2nd line of the 3-line boxes) and just run these extra batters' subsequent at bats downward (instead of left to right). So, the typical 3-plate-appearance-per-kid means I've got room for 4 extra batters in that last line (16 kids!) or I can use the last 2 columns to spread them out a bit more.
Positive is there's more room to pull it off and more players can be accomodated. The negative is that change of direction, which hurts my head to tally them at the end of the game.

c) Use a modified sheet

I've shrunk the standard sheet so there's room for more rows. I've done it with a photocopier, and I've done it in software.
The positive is it's very clean looking. It's also easier for someone else to read, because there's no design-shift with this method (everything is sitll as it would be on a normal 9 or 12 sheet). The negative is it makes for smaller boxes, and Alex might shoot me for modifying his work. Frankly the "prettyness" is only apparant before anything is written in it, and I find the roominess of the above methods to be more comfortable. I'd rather someone look at my tally sheet anyway (AB, R, RBI etc) rather than the game boxes. I can walk them through a pbp if they really want to know what happened.

2) Yeah, I get this a lot too.

First, I usally become the PRIMARY scorekeeper, then I use my book. I compile the stats, so the coaches love me and never care about the book. If they want to verify eligibility I can produce the book or photocopy the pages to show the kid's participation through the regular season.
But, even then I'm backup for other kids, so 2 things I've done.

a) Use Reisner method with their scoresheet.

Yeah, this is torture. Anytime I do this, it reminds why I must be prepared for the next method...

b) always have spare sheets.

I will do a score on a Reisner sheet (front-&-back) and just give the coach the sheet, or put it in the book. I usually try to tally quicker when I do this so they don't really have to read Reisner method and still have the data (if they even use it). But, I've actually had one coach appreciate my sheets so much he gave up on the regular book.

I've pressed the league on this, and they say the primary use of the books beyond coach use is to verify eligibility of the player for All-Stars (the big tournament that goes to Williamsport). It's the evidence that he played regular season and is therefore eligible. So, since the evidence is intact, they don't care that it's not in one of their Dicks-Sporting Goods flimsy-books.They admitted to not having to actually produce such evidence in years if ever.

Yeah, I totally want the league to switch to Reisner method. Bit by bit.. one of these days.

3) I agree with Alex that electronic is different. I personally prefer the paper, and don't want to switch (early-onset-curmudgeonhood). It would be nice to have the data produced through that electronic device, and then the actual sheet doesn't really matter. The sheet is a means to an end:the stats (IMO). But it's also a beautiful record... hours of activity etched on a page, and I can tell the story from it and remember the detail... lovely stuff no PDA/phone will get. The little quirks can't be handled by the electronic systems. I have notes like "[13] 2nd called strike hit the plate" "[17] OF collided, 4 replaced 8 on injury substitution" or "Ump told kid the balk was for turning his shoulders" or all the little marks I make as I experiment like pickoff throws by pitcher, by catcher, to which base, coach visites to the mound, severe weather anomalies etc. etc.

Good luck. It's always possible. You'll figure out what works for you.

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